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Mr. William C. Taylor called the Council meeting to order at 9:16 a.m. at the Washington, D.C. Electricians
JATC, I.B.E.W. Local No. 26, 4371 Parliament Place, Suite A, Lanham, Maryland 20706 and welcomed all Council
members, staff and guests in attendance. Mr. David McCord also welcomed the Council meeting to their training center.
William C. Taylor - Chairperson Public Representative
James A. Williams, Sr. - Public Representative
Larry R. Greenhill, Sr. - Employee Representative
Michael J. McNelly - Employee Representative
David W. Norfolk - Employee Representative
Rosie L.D. Pointer - Employee Representative
Robert F. Yeatman, Jr. - Employee Representative
Michelle L. Butt - Employer Representative
Christopher F. Kelly, Sr.- Employer Representative
George Maloney - Employer Representative
Grant Shmelzer - Employer Representative
Robert H. Laudeman - USDL/OA Ex Officio Consultant to the Council
C. Edward Poarch II - MATP
Charles Buttiglieri - MATP
Alfred M. FitzSimons - MATP
Karl J. Matzdorf - MATP
William W. Saxman - MATP
John P. Taylor - MATP
Joseph Addicks - Netzer Metalcraft, Inc.
Michael L. Alexander - Baltimore City Joint Apprenticeship Committee
Beth M. Arman - Community College of Baltimore County
William J. Bailey - Finishing Trades Institute of Maryland, Virginia, Washington, D.C. and Vicinities
Kevin Burton - I.B.E.W. Local No. 26
Brian S. Cavey - Heat and Frost Insulators and Allied Workers Local No. 24 JAC
Courtney Christensen - Clark Construction Group, LLC
Kevin M. Donohue - Mid-Atlantic Carpenters' Training Centers
Thomas Doyle - Hilgartner Natural Stone Company, Inc.
Timothy T. Haley - Washington, D.C. Joint Plumbing Apprenticeship Committee
Robert E. Humbertson - Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers, Local 1
Lisa D. Johnson - Associated Builders and Contractors, Inc., Metropolitan Washington Chapter
Jonathan R. Krasnoff - DLLR/OAG
George Krouse - International Union of Operating Engineers Local 77
Norbert R. Klusmann - Sheet Metal Workers Local No. 100 JATC, Washington, D.C. Area
David A. McCord - Washington, D.C. Electricians JATC, I.B.E.W. Local No. 26
Gary Murdock - Steamfitters Local No. 602 JATC
Sean Myers - Washington, D.C. Electricians JATC, I.B.E.W. Local No. 26
Dennis Parker - Netzer Metalcraft, Inc.
Myke Price - Clark Construction Group, LLC
Randy Rice - Hite Associates, Inc., T/A Hite Roofing
Robert Ringgold - Dedicated Circuits, LLC
Jason C. Roberts - Associated Builders and Contractors, Inc., Metropolitan Washington Chapter
Roger Ryan - United Union of Roofers, Water- proofers & Allied Workers Local Union No. 34 JATC
Tyra K. Salapeh - Graham Packaging Plastic Products, Inc.
Sean T. Straser - Steamfitters Local No. 602 JATC
Charles Wallace - Maryland State Department of Education
Mike Wolksi - Clark Construction Group, LLC
I. The minutes of the January 8, 2013 Council meeting were approved with the second paragraph
under Netzer Metalcraft, Inc. to be corrected to read as follows: "Mr. John Taylor stated to the Council
that he had spoken with a representative of this company the previous week and that this individual had
indicated that he would be present at the Council meeting, however, he had not arrived yet."
II. DIRECTORS REPORT:
A. Mr. Poarch noted that Prevailing Wage Unit reviews of certified payrolls had found a number of
instances of underpayment of apprentices particularly in the area of fringe benefits. He asked training directors
to advise their employers that apprentices receive the full fringe benefits on prevailing wage projects. He also
asked training directors to be certain that their apprentices submit their monthly progress reports in a
B. Council members were invited to attend the Division of Labor and Industry's forum on Employment
Rights and Safety to be held on March 20, 2013 at Towson University. There would be no cost to attend the forum
and Mr. Poarch provided a link to a site where they could register to attend online. Mr. Poarch added that he
would be making a presentation of the Apprenticeship Training Fund law that would be going into effect on July
Mr. McNelly inquired as to whether the Council should become involved when the Prevailing Wage Unit has found
violations that involve apprentices. After the Prevailing Wage Unit has completed their process, should the
Council look at the violations with the possibility of deregistering the apprenticeship program sponsor.
Mr. Krasnoff explained that under the law, it would not be improper for the Council to take a look at the
violations and perhaps a mechanism should be developed so that after the Prevailing Wage Unit has taken action
that the information could be forwarded to Council for the Council to consider whether further action should be taken.
A motion to request that reports on prevailing wage violations be submitted to the Council after administrative
action has been taken was made by Mr. McNelly, seconded by Mr. Greenhill and approved with six (6) Council members
in favor of the motion, one (1) opposed and three (3) abstentions.
Mr. Krasnoff again reminded the Council that they could request the information but that there was nothing
under the Apprenticeship and Training regulations that the Council could require that the information be
submitted to the Council.
Mr. Shmelzer inquired about how contractors would be made aware of the implementation of the fund on July
1, 2013. Mr. Poarch replied that the Division of Labor and Industry was in the process of notifying all procurement
officers in the state about putting language about the fund in all of their bid packages going out after July 1, 2013.
Mr. Greenhill wanted to know whether there was any new information about the taskforce appointed to study
apprenticeship. Mr. Poarch reported that the Commissioner had not received any new information regarding that.
III. OLD BUSINESS:
A. NEW PROGRAMS:
1. Dedicated Circuits, LLC (Alfred M. FitzSimons) - Occupation of Electrician. Related instruction to be
through Sussex Tech Adult Division in Georgetown, De. [Printed Standards Forms]
Mr. Yeatman inquired about the 144 hours per year of related instruction to be provided by Sussex Tech and
whether there would be make-up dates for apprentices who miss classes so that they could get 144 yours. Mr.
Ringgold responded that make-up time and make-up tests were offered. Mr. Shmelzer requested that Mr. FitzSimons verify with Sussex Tech that there would, in fact, be make-up time.
Mr. Norfolk requested Mr. FitzSimons to verify the journeyperson rate of $13.00 per hour for Electricians.
Mr. Ringgold explained to the Council that this amount was a minimum as well as how it had been derived. Mr.
Shmelzer then stated that it should be the actual average for the company's Electricians. Mr. Ringgold
responded that he would be willing to re-determine the rate if he needed to do so.
Mr. Kelly requested that there be more detail shown in the work processes under "Trouble Shooting."
Mr. McNelly requested that Mr. FitzSimons assist the company in addressing the concerns that had been raised
by Council members. Mr. William Taylor informed Mr. Ringgold that Mr. FitzSimons would work with him on these
items so that he would not have to come back before the Council at the next Council meeting.
A motion to table this request was made by Mr. Maloney, seconded by Mr. McNelly and approved with nine
(9) Council members in favor of the motion and one (1) abstention.
2. Netzer Metalcraft, Inc. (Alfred M. FitzSimons) - Occupation of Machinist. Related instruction to be
through the Community College of Baltimore County Catonsville campus. [Printed Standards Forms]
A motion to approve this program was made by Mr. McNelly, seconded by Mr. Yeatman and approved with nine
(9) Council members in favor of the motion and one (1) abstention.
IV. NEW BUSINESS:
A. NEW PROGRAMS:
1. Badger Electric, Inc. (Alfred M. FitzSimons) - Occupation of Electrician. Related instruction to be
through New Castle County Vo-Tech in Wilmington, De. and/or Polytech High School in Woodside, De. [Printed Standards Forms]
Mr. FitzSimons informed Council members that a representative of the company would be participating in the
Council meeting via teleconference call. Mr. McNelly questioned the rationale as to why they were doing it this
way rather than coming before the Council in person. Mr. William Taylor responded that this had been done before.
Due to technical problems, the telephone connection became disconnected during the discussion of the proposed
program and could not be restored.
A motion to table this request until a representative of the company could appear before the Council in person
was made by Mr. Kelly, seconded by Mr. Maloney and unanimously approved.
2. Clark Construction Group, LLC (Alfred M. FitzSimons) - Occupation of Concrete Form Builder. Related instruction
to be in-house using the National Center for Construction Education and Research (NCCER) curriculum. [PLEASE NOTE:
This occupation has not been previously recognized by the Maryland Apprenticeship and Training Council.]
Mr. McNelly observed that the Council had dealt with the issue of recognizing Concrete Form Builder on three
previous occasions and expressed his displeasure that it was coming before the Council again. He went on to
explain the reason why the request to recognize this occupation had been denied the past three times.
Mr. Krasnoff noted that this request was being brought before the Council by a different party than the
previous requests and added that Maryland's Apprenticeship and Training law and regulations do not give staff
the authority to approve or to deny a request.
A motion to deny the request for approval and registration of this program was made by Mr. Maloney and seconded by Mr. McNelly.
Ms. Pointer stated that she wanted it on the record that placing staff in the position of having to decide whether
to bring a request before the Council did not reflect the view of all Council members.
Mr. William Taylor suggested that the Council go into closed session before taking a vote on whether or not to
deny the request. Mr. Yeatman responded that there was already a motion on the floor.
A motion to go into closed session for receiving the advice of counsel was made by Ms. Butt and seconded by Ms. Pointer.
Mr. Williams noted that there were two motions on the floor at the same time. Mr. Shmezler added that according
to parliamentary procedure, action needed to be taken on the first motion before there could be a new motion on the floor.
The motion made by Mr. Maloney and seconded by Mr. McNelly to deny the request for approval and registration of
this program was approved with seven (7) Council members in favor of the motion and three (3) opposed.
3. United Union of Roofers, Water-proofers & Allied Workers Local Union No. 34 JATC (William W. Saxman) -
Occupation of Roofer. Related instruction to be provided by the JATC. Request for registration of an Affirmative
Action Plan with Apprentice Selection Procedures and Goals and Timetables for Minority and Female apprentices.
A motion to approve this program was made by Mr. Greenhill, seconded by Mr. Yeatman and unanimously approved.
A motion to approve the Affirmative Action Plan with Apprentice Selection Procedures and Goals and Timetables for
Minority and Female apprentices was made by Mr. Williams, seconded by Mr. Maloney and unanimously approved.
B. PROGRAM REVISIONS:
1. Hilgartner Natural Stone Company, Inc. (Alfred M. FitzSimons) - Revision to better align their related instruction
curriculum with job requirements and to revise the first interval of the apprentice wage progression schedule.
Mr. Greenhill asked Mr. Doyle how many people had completed his company's apprenticeship program. Mr. Doyle responded
that 113 individuals had started as apprentices and that seven (7) had completed. He added that this was part of the
reason why they were requesting to modify their related instruction. He added that theirs was the only apprenticeship
program of its kind and that other companies have recruited employees away from his company as the occupation is not
Mr. Yeatman questioned the journeyperson hourly wage rate of $10.00 per hour. Mr. Doyle responded that all of the
rates shown were minimums and that their average journeypersons have worked for the company for 27 years. He added
that skill levels continue to rise over the years. Mr. Yeatman stated that the journeypeson wage rate had to be the
actual average. There was considerable Council discussion of the determination of the appropriate rate.
A motion to approve this revision with the provisions that the stated journeyperson hourly wage rate be confirmed
and that the Director assign staff perform a review of the program was made by Mr. Shemlzer, seconded by Ms. Pointer
and approved with one (1) Council member opposed.
2. I.E.C. Chesapeake, Inc. (Karl J. Matzdorf) - Request for reactivation of the occupation of Telecommunications
Employer representative Grant Shmelzer recused himself from this item of Council business.
A motion to approve the reactivation of the occupation of Telecommunications Installer-Technician was made
by Mr. McNelly, seconded by Mr. Williams and unanimously approved.
3. Sheet Metal Workers Local No. 100 JATC (Karl J. Matzdorf)- Revision to add a Step-up component to their
Mr. Matzdorf directed the attention of Council members to the letter from Mr. Klusmann in which it was stated
that the sponsor already had a Step-up component under their Standards of Apprenticeship registered with the
District of Columbia Apprenticeship Council since 2011 and that it has worked well.
Mr. Shmelzer noted the need to resume the Council's discussion of pre-apprenticeship and expressed his concern
about approving this request before the Council and the Governor's Office had set an overall direction for pre-apprenticeship.
Mr. Shmelzer asked Mr. Klusmann about an apparent contradiction in the request as to whether or not a high
school diploma or GED was required for applicants for Step-up. Mr. Klusmann replied that since it was not required
for applicants in their Apprenticeship Standards, it would not be required for Step-up applicants.
Mr. Norfolk inquired as to whether Step-up participants would be able to work on prevailing wage projects. Mr.
Klusmann stated that they would be and that that was the purpose of registering them with the Council. He added,
however, that they could not be used in lieu of a regular apprentice. There was considerable Council discussion
about using these individuals on federal, State of Maryland and District of Columbia prevailing wage projects.
A motion to approve this request made by Mr. Yeatman and seconded by Ms. Pointer failed to carry with four (4)
Council members in favor of the motion and five (5) opposed.
A motion made by Mr. McNelly and seconded by Mr. Greenhill for the Council to work with the Department of Labor,
Licensing and Regulation to develop legislation to establish pre-apprenticeship was approved with eight (8) Council
members in favor of the motion and one (1) opposed.
4. Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers District Council of West Virginia JATC, Local 15 (William W. Saxman) -
Revision to raise the minimum requirements to operate a masonry saw, modify the ratio formula, increase the related
instruction requirements and to add the occupation of Pointer-Cleaner-Caulker.
Mr. Saxman explained that they wanted to change their requirements so that an apprentice could not operate a
masonry saw until they were in their second year, modify their ratio from one (1) apprentice to five (5) journeypersons
to one (1) apprentice to three (3) journeyperons and to increase their related instruction requirements. He stated
that they also wanted to add the occupation of Pointer-Cleaner-Caulker as it was a trend within the industry to go
to Pointer-Cleaner-Caulker as a separate occupation although at the same journeyperson pay rate as for a Bricklayer.
Mr. Shmelzer wanted to know if this would be the first for Pointer-Cleaner-Caulker. Mr. William Taylor responded
that Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers Local No. 1 in this area already had that occupation. Mr. Roberts noted
that the work of a Pointer-Cleaner-Caulker was already covered under their training schedules for Bricklayer.
A motion to deny this request was made by Mr. McNelly, seconded by Mr. Maloney and unanimously approved.
C. PROGRAM REVIEWS (Five (5) or More Apprentices):
1. Baltimore JATC for the Electrical Industry (Karl J. Matzdorf).
Employee Representative David W. Norfolk recused himself from this item of Council business.
A motion to accept this review, with staff recommendations, was made by Mr. McNelly, seconded by Mr.
Shmelzer and unanimously approved.
2. Graham Packaging Plastic Products, Inc. (Karl J. Matzdorf).
Mr. Greenhill made a request to find out the total number of apprentices who had graduated from this program.
A motion to accept this review, with staff recommendations, was made by Mr. McNelly, seconded by Mr. Shmelzer
and unanimously approved.
D. PROGRAM REVIEWS (Fewer Than Five (5) Apprentices):
1. The following program review was performed and the program was found to be conducted in a satisfactory manner.
[No Council Action Required]:
a. Colt Insulation, Inc. (Karl J. Matzdorf) - Occupation of Insulation Worker.
E. VOLUNTARY REQUESTS FOR CANCELLATION OF STANDARDS OF APPRENTICESHIP:
1. MaTech - Machining Technologies, Inc. effective January 9, 2013, W.G. Gore & Associates, Inc.,
Appleton Central effective January 10, 2013, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Appleton North effective January
10, 2013, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Appleton South effective January 10, 2013, W.L. Gore & Associates,
Inc., Elk Mills I effective January 10, 2013, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Fabrics Division effective
January 10, 2013, W.L. Gore & Associates Inc., Filtration Division effective January 10, 2013 and W.L.
Gore & Associates, Inc., Upper Chesapeake Division effective January 10, 2013.
A motion to approve the voluntary requests for cancellation of Standards of Apprenticeship for MaTech -
Machining Technologies, Inc., W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Appleton Central, W.L. Gore & Associates,
Inc., Appleton North, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Appleton South, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc.,
Elk Mills I, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Fabrics Division, W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Filtration
Division and W.L. Gore & Associates, Inc., Upper Chesapeake Division as per the dates requested was made
by Mr. Greenhill, seconded by Mr. Yeatman and unanimously approved.
F. OTHER BUSINESS:
1. Barnes Electric, Inc. (Karl J. Matzdorf) - Request to register an apprentice Electrician with credit
for on-the-job training and/or related instruction beyond the fifty percent (50%) level.
A motion to approve this request was made by Mr. Maloney, seconded by Mr. Greenhill and approved with one
(1) Council member opposed.
2. Report from the regulations subcommittee.
Mr. Krasnoff made the report to the Council on behalf of the regulations subcommittee. He reported that the
subcommittee had met during the final week of January and that the main issue addressed by the subcommittee was
whether there was a need for a statutory change in order to come into compliance with the federal Department of
Labor. He stated that he had been tasked by the subcommittee to discuss the issue with the Commissioner of
Labor and Industry and to come back to the Council with some proposed statutory language regarding the
authority of the Council. He added that he had met with the Commissioner and that the Commissioner was willing
to go along with the recommendations of the subcommittee.
Mr. Krasnoff went on to state that he had discussed this issue with several other states having regulatory
Councils as to how they were addressing the issue. He noted that the federal Department of Labor can require
that in order to continue to be approved as a state apprenticeship registration agency for federal purposes
that states have to have a registration agency within state government rather than an appointed board, council
or commission making final decisions for federal purposes.
Mr. Krasnoff stated that he would be willing to develop some proposed language for the subcommittee to
consider and once accepted by the subcommittee to be presented to the full Council. He anticipated that this
could be presented to the full Council at the May 14, 2013 Council meeting.
There being no further business to come before the Council, the meeting of the Maryland Apprenticeship and
Training Council was adjourned at 12:00 p.m.
C. Edward Poarch II
Maryland Apprenticeship and Training Council